I’m late getting started. I got happily sidetracked by Joseph Campbell’s, Transformations of Myth through Time (recommended) and a bit of Karen Armstrong’s, A Short History of Myth. I figure if I read at least two Books of The Iliad a day, I should get to where I need to be in time for our discussion. Two whole Books read and the questions are already forming:1. What does it say about us that we create our gods in our own image? Homer’s gods are just about as anthropomorphic (human-like) as you can get; e.g., Zeus’s troubles keep him from sleeping (2.2-4), Hera can be “throttled” (1.683), and Hephaestus is crippled (1.731). Greek gods are part of the tradition that has led us to a “knowable” anthropomorphic Christian God and a Jesus who looks more Dutch than Middle Eastern. So why do we create our divinities in our own image? Do we suffer from a lack of imagination, an inability to envision the infinite, or is it that we are we comfortable with what is known and familiar (or both)?
2. Honor or hubris? Are the values that drive these men; honor, in particular, still valued in the same way today? Is it a value system that’s sustainable (to use a 21st century term)? If personal honor is the highest value, doesn’t that create a dog-eat-dog society with one top dog and lots of little dogs scrambling?
3. Heroes or overweiners? Could Achilles and Agamemnon be considered heroes today? I’m having a difficult time with these two. In Books 1 and 2, King Agamemnon does an excellent job of mucking it up. Nester and Odysseus are both excellent at clean-up. Why aren’t they the true heroes?
4. At what point did women become spoils of war and how did that come about? Of course, you have sex slaves Chryseis and Briseis (Book 1), but how about soldiers not getting to go home until they each “beds down a faithful Trojan wife/ payment in full for the groans and shocks of war/ we have all borne for Helen” (2.421-423). Note to the Achaeans: you aren’t doing it for Helen, maybe you think you are, and maybe you even have Helen convinced that you are, but enlightened mortals of the 21st century know you’re doing it for something else, something called pride.
Homer’s similes are beautiful. One of the most visual is his description of the Achaeans going into battle where he compares them to flocks of birds “circling”, “wheeling”, “landing” (2.544-448). I got the sense that he felt war is as natural, and by extension, as inevitable, as birds flying. I question that assumption (just as I did in "Themes".)
I’m enjoying watching the interplay between fate and freewill (destiny versus chaos). I was wondering what it would be like if a goddess used my voice to speak (“Iris…key[ed] her voice to that of Priam’s son” (1.899-900).) I love how the words come through the Muses. And I love Homer’s repetitive use of language. It skillfully holds the epic-epic together.
"Themes." English 257 Mythology. Northern Virginia Community College. 25 Feb 2010.
To possibly answer question number 3, Oysseus and Nestor are the articulate speakers and side by side partners in settling disputes between Agememnon and Achilles. However, the limelight is almost always shown on the protagonists, such as King Agememnon. A notorious observation with many tales.
ReplyDeleteI also can agree that Homer depicts many comparisons and contrasts in his epic story of, The Iliad. I enjoyed reading your takes on them
ReplyDeleteJessica,
ReplyDeleteMy apologies for the tardy reply. My response was too long for Blogger (went over the 4096 mark I guess). I have posted my responses in the Open Forum--they are too brief, but perhaps we can talk about them live should the class decide on another e-Nova session for the Iliad (there was talk).
Could Achilles and Agamemnon be considered heroes today?
ReplyDeleteI too don't feel like I can classify either one of these men as a hero. You can’t discount the fact that both characters were great men (one is a king while the other a demigod) who were capable of heroic feats but not all their actions were entirely inspirational (especially Achilles).
I liken Achilles to the football player Terrell Owens. Their exceptional skills are surpassed only by their egos. Neither one of these men seem to possess the desire to be a team player and the team suffers as a whole. Does Achilles, being the son of a god, feel like he’s entitled to special treatment? I fully understand how upset he is at Agamemnon but to sit back and let his brothers get massacred while he sits and fumes is not heroic at all. Other men like Odysseus and (for me) Telamonian Ajax proved more heroic in the end.
I agree with you. Many sports stars are today's version of Achilles. They're easy to identify because of their obscene salaries. Tiger Woods' recent fall from grace is a good example. As soon as he exhibited bad behavior, the sponsors fled.
ReplyDeleteMy hero from The Iliad is Diomedes. I particularly like his social skills. Odysseus comes a close second, but like Agamemnon, there is no question of who comes first in his world: himself!
There is another question that arises out of rejecting these two as heroes. If the Greek virtues (& the behavior that results) no longer work for us or reflect what we value as a culture, what virtues should contemporary hero possess and what are our highest values?
(BTW, did you see the movie Idiocracy? Even though it's billed as a comedy, the movie is pure satire. A WWF champ becames president--a comment on making the wrong people our heroes!)